Posted by Lola Montez on 02-21-2001 10:28 AM
You are getting very hostile. Lighten up! Why are you so
threatened? Does it really matter if John is authentic or not? The
worst consequence of believing him is being better prepared in case of
any emergency-natural disaster or otherwise. Weren’t you a boyscout? I
think it would be more interesting, informative and just plain fun to
find out more of what his vision of the future is than always trying to
put him on the defensive. (John, please stop buying into it)Do you
think you are going to finally find something to post that will get him
to cry “Uncle!”. (Why wouldn’t he speak English?) I think you are
getting too upset over this and you should ask yourself why.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 11:18 AM
How am I being hostile? I’m just asking John questions and answering
his comments in the best manner that I know how. No one here is being
Well, maybe you with those statements.
Better then being a fanatic, who believes in people so blindly.
Well John, you have another fan to back you up.
Somehow some people here believe you need to be protected and backed up.
It must be your story that appeals to them .
And I’m exposing you. And that just hurts some people’s feelings.
[Edited by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 at 11:43 AM]
Posted by James R.Quayle III on 02-21-2001 01:05 PM
Hello John I was wondering if you could respond to my post, I was serious.Agentq3
Posted by Joe Norris on 02-21-2001 01:29 PM
I guess there will be no answer about my Bill Clinton/Bill Gates post
Posted by John Titor on 02-21-2001 02:04 PM
If you take a look, I am answering every question in order unless I see something quick that I think needs a response.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 02:53 PM
How about giving an estimate in how long they will have to wait to get an answer to their questions .
[Edited by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 at 03:03 PM]
Posted by Doug Beauchamp on 02-21-2001 03:32 PM
Many people asking about the dangers of the war are asking about
cities being nuked. During school today I was thinking about this, and
nuclear warfare doesn’t seem to be the biggest form of fighting in the
future. Other than the small countries, I doubt nuclear warheads are
going to be shot from each end of the globe. To me, what seems like the
biggest threat is biological warfare. John, you say one of the hardest
things to do in 2036 is find clean water. You also say you only trust
food you’ve grown. Is any of this a result of your expiriences with
biological warfare? Is bilogical warfare a major threat in this war you
This is definately the least serious of my questions, but is there
anymore background information you can give (What city you were born
in, etc)? I understand if you can’t but after this thread is over I may
get a little bored and see if I can find any information on the John
Titor of “today,” assuming that’s your real name.
Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-21-2001 04:22 PM
Let’s get the facts straight.
Javier I have been over those pages with a very open mind trying to
figuere out where you have seen John make that statement and I couldnt
This is the one you are claiming:
[((Your question referred to army basic training. My earlier comment referred to be choosen for this mission))
Are you sure about that? I remember distinctively you saying that
you got approached for this mission right after basic training. I mean,
it was one of my first posts to you in the other forum. After saying
"good thing I got injured, or that would have been my fate also.]
You made the statement on -Jan 1 2001
“well its a good thing I got injured in the Army, or else that might have been my fate as well.”
awaiting your findings…
could you please copy and paste the statement and tell me what page it is on…thanks.
Posted by John Titor on 02-21-2001 04:35 PM
((How far from what size city is it the safest to be?))
A 10 Kiloton nuclear weapon will vaporize metal for about ½ a mile
and have a heat effect for about 3 miles. A 100 Megaton nuclear weapon
will vaporize metal to 35 miles and have a heat effect to about 250
miles. I believe the largest nuclear weapon ever built and tested was
about 60 megatons. As I recall, the popular strategy toady is to strike
targets with multiple numbers of smaller warheads. The 100 Kt to 1 Mt
are the most popular. I believe there are about 150 – 200 major cities
in the US and half as many military targets. Please correct me someone
if I am grossly incorrect.
((You suggest bicycle. What about horseback?))
Yes, horses are good if you can feed and water them. Also, it’s very hard to eat a bicycle.
((Should we be stockpiling guns?))
The answer to this is NO! You will draw a great deal of negative
attention to yourself. I recommend become familiar with firearms. This
means taking a safety course and learning to shoot and clean many
different types. There will be plenty of guns around when you need
((What kind of people will be the ones least trustworthy?))
The people with the most to lose if the world changes -Camel through the eye of a needle?
((Is the conflict racial in any way?))
Not at all. In fact, I would say it goes a long way toward erasing racial problems.
((Does the civil war start in such a way that with this
foreknowledge those willing will have time to remove themselves to
Yes. You will be forced to ask yourself how many civil rights you will give up to feel safe.
((Will you readily be able to identify the enemy.))
They will be the ones arresting and holding prople without due process.
((Does living near a river with a distillation unit take care of water problems?))
There is an odd saying that might be appropriate here. Safe is
anywhere a hungry person can’t walk in three days. Water is important
but you must consider that when people need it they will know where to
get it. I would not plan on planting myself permanently next to a water
source. Yes, distillation dose make water safe but the runoff is highly
dangerous. Please remember that distillation is not boiling.
((How are the five people within the 100 miles contacted?))
The goal is to have a place to go other than your house and to be
able to trust someone with your life. Foster those relationships now.
((Do communications stay intact.))
Main communication systems no, CB, sideband and non-repeating short-wave, yes.
((I have 86 acres on a river in Central California about 125 miles
north of LA. I have geese, turkeys, horses, chickens, milk cows, good
pasture, a well run by electricity, and a garden. I also have two
teenage sons who are gun nuts. Plenty of rifles, semi-automatic and
Be mobile. Set aside the things you absolutely would need and can
carry on your back. You will not be able to stay anywhere indefinitely
even with provisions and firearms.
(( Will he be asked to kill his countrymen?))
I’m not positive but don’t they sign a small piece of paper now asking them if they would have a problem with that?
Posted by Roy Meserve on 02-21-2001 05:44 PM
Thanks for those titles. I will look for them. To J Cortez
chill… reality (and time) are very plastic things- we change the future AND the past constantly, and to far less
noble ends. But, in the spirit of our friend- feel free to
doubt and question- I do myself but I don’t let it stop me from trying
to learn from what he has to say. Even the very common sense ‘rules’
for the potential future…. it costs
me next to nothing to be aware or to prepare.
ps John, it is Wednesday the 21st- did you say to tune into
the show tonight?!!! Cause if so, I’m there! Hope you call.
Posted by Jim Houlahan on 02-21-2001 06:30 PM
I’m guessing the date of your return to the future is April 19th. Is this correct?
Of course, if you’re just “having us on” then April 1st would be more appropriate.
Posted by Angel Lynnn on 02-21-2001 06:57 PM
I think John was saying to listen to Dr. Day tonight. Check out her website:
Feb. 21, 2001
Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-21-2001 07:00 PM
Now I’m not volunteering but…..
I’ve noticed as so must have most of us. There are a lot of questions being asked that John has responded to.
Perhaps one of us could volunteer to compile all the direct q&a
sort of a John Titor FAQ. This way new posters can read all the answers
that have been given and not have the same questions asked over and
John, we can have a topic just for the faq right on this board I think?
I don’t think John is starved for web space to post his manual and
pictures, many have offered John whatever resources he needs including
me. So far he has not been interested.
I’d be more than happy to give him a web site, a domain name, for
that matter a web server if it would help get more answers and time out
of him. Call me gullible if you want but I would do that.
My mention of Joseph Campbell was a rebuttal to someone who claimed
that your General story was un-original. In fact the most likely leader
of a movement like the one you describe would most likely be a Farmer
since being a Farmer would provide much of the scenario required.
My asking you if the mention of CERN going on-line and discovering
this and that, was a prediction was a genuine question completely
un-related to “making a Buck”.
I wondered if it was just a hint you were giving as to something
that could be verified after the fact with little chance of you
mentioning it having an effect on it.
I’m sure it’s hard to remember what each poster has said, but in
my case you missed. I have argued that the important thing here is the
discussion and not if “you are” or “you are not” a TT. For me what is
interesting is the type of questions that are being asked, and the
apparent hostility that someone like you can be subjected to for no
Ultimately there is no way to “prove” anything conclusive here.
Since I believe time travel is possible “now” I don’t have a
problem with your story. I like your story since it ends up being a
better world than we have now. I hope it is true.
If it is we are all lucky to have had a chance to talk to a TT. If not
then I wish you either a quick recovery or a great career as a Sci Fi
What can we gain from this discussion? is the real question.
I have already benefited from it as I believe you have, and many others.
Javier… To comment on Lola’s post. I understand your frustration, you want your questions answered.
If I were John I would not answer your questions either or skirt
them. Not because they are not valid, as they may be, but because your
buttons are being pressed by his non compliance.
I’m sure even in 2036 there is a tendency to tease one’s detractors if they make themselves available.
To expose someone you have to present “proof” the same type of “proof”
you are asking him for. According to our Laws if this were a court case
John would not have to prove where he came from. The burden of proof is
on the prosecution. It’s up to you to prove he is not a TT.
So far most of your assertions have been related to either John not
answering your questions, or some inconsistency in his story revolving
around his Basic training and it’s relevance to when he was recruited
for time travel.
Also his use of “perfect” English. His English is good but far from perfect.
John has “not answered” some of my questions to “my satisfaction”
and I for one am not ready to sign up for either the “I believe” camp
or the “I don’t believe” camp.
My reason for straddling the fence at this time is that.
No one here has presented any evidence either way that would be conclusive. Not you, not John, not anyone.
In a game of chess you have to either kill your oponent or chip
away at his defenses until you trap him and he gives up. To do that you
have to mount an offense that will neutralize his defenses. Conversly
you have to mount a defense to repel his onslaught. So far you’ve not
John is “playing you” Javier. It’s an old trick, if your most
vociferous detractor continually puts on weak attacks, it takes
attention away from the really challenging questions.
I’d be willing to bet that if you took all the posts from this BBS
and the other one, and compared all of it, you may find more ammo for
If I was going to come after a person, I would not warn him, I’d
just get all my facts together, give him no warning and set up a line
of questioning designed to trap him into “Mutually exclusive
statements” if you could log enough of these you could prove he’s
having trouble keeping the story together. A good sign that he is not
telling the truth.
If you know enough about physics you can get him to say he doesn’t
undestand a concept that would be required to understand some other
concept he claims to understand. To do that you have to know more than
him. He knows as much physics as anyone posting here to say the least.
If you analize all his statements you’ll find he is aware of some
colloquialisms, and not others. That by itself is not much since he
claims to come from the future you would expect some colloquial
deviation. The thing to look at is which ones he knows and uses and
which ones he doesn’t.
He knows “make a buck” and “more power to you”, and “off the cuff”.
He is unaware or dislikes “buy in” or “buy that”
Does that prove anything? not really. Given enough text you can profile him and make a good guess.
Still it doesn’t “prove” anything. You have the same chance of exposing him as he has of convincing you. None.
Here’s one for you John.
What 82 page book written in England in 1884 is required reading
for all physics students? I admit it’s possible you may not know in
2036, but highly unlikely. The same reason that makes it so important
for physics students would make it just as important to understanding
Secondly why is this little book so important.
If he doesn’t know this it lends more circumstantial evidence to
your side. But he could ask someone and then how do you prove that?
How many amateur Physicists here know that answer without looking it
up? Really. If you don’t know this off the top of your head, you don’t
know squat about Hyperdimensional Physics or it’s potential
technological application. Unless you are Stephen Hawking, this is what
it takes to get started. By the way Stephen Hawking read this book and
knows exactly what I’m talking about. As do all phycisists.
How about this? Let John make a recording of himself saying he is
from the future and whatever other part of his story he wants. We could
submit that to voice stress analysis. Is that enough? no again, since a
well trained person can beat a voice stress analysis by using self
hypnosis or having someone hypnotize them prior to recording. Again no
Short of grabbing John and pumping him full of Sodium pentathol you
are not going to have any conclusive proof until after he leaves and
has made some predictions for you to check. Since he says this is not
his timeline you can’t be sure a prediction is even a prediction. Again
So how is it you propose to expose John? can you show “me” your
rationale. After all your statements and mine are up for scrutiny the
moment we make them just like John.
I realize in your mind you already have exposed him, just not good
enough to convince me, and I would hazard to guess a number of others
Let’s say everyone here agreed John was a fake. What then?
No more dicussion. End of exchange no more platform. Maybe.
Anyway. that’s my take. I don’t think you are hostile just a little excited.
Rick? any reports from your guys looking at the pics/manuals?
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 07:08 PM
When I have a little time I’ll do a keyword search for it. I’m sure it’s there. Why else would I say it? Right?
No need to get upset with me. I know he’s your friend, but stop protecting him all the time.
And to everyone else here. You all fail to see the big picture
here. You have welcomed a stranger into your lives who is not what he
appears to be. And I being one of the only one with enough sense to see
that, you get upset with me.
Excuse me, but are you forgetting that this man has a secret agenda? You can all be being played right now.
But no, that doesn’t matter to you. At least I make no secret of
what I am. A Time Travel
Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-21-2001 07:20 PM
(((When I have a little time I’ll do a keyword search for it. I’m sure it’s there. Why else would I say it? Right? ))
will that be within two days?
I shall await….
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 08:06 PM
I don’t know why your so upset with me, but you know my word is
good. If I said I will do something, you know I will do it. Or have you
Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-21-2001 08:20 PM
Javier you will obviously be one of the survivors
John – Thanks for your replies.
Does the sense of “here and now” continue for you in 2036, while you are here?
IS your sense of “timing” off, in new time environments? I’ve heard
people who have “out-of-body-experiences” find that it sometimes takes
a day or two to regain a sense of normalcy in their minute interactions
with the physical world.
I remember reading a book about 7 years ago.
GENERATIONS: THE HISTORY OF AMERICAS FUTURE
It was a sociological look at the history of the United States through
the lens of different generational groups. The Authors noted a four
Its a bit of hard book to summarize, though its central thesis is this
- History follows certain cycles. With respect to this folder, what
stuck out for me was that the Millenial Kids (recently born and
probably up to about 10 or 12 now) were of the same type as the kids
who grew up and built the US infrastructure during the 30′s and 40′s
-and then fought WW2. (GI Generation) The GIs were classified as a very
civic minded generation. So will the Millenial Kids(MKs). MKs will go
on to build the global infrastructure of the information age, the new
transportation systems and the new municipal infrastructures. Similar
to the GIs they will then go on to engage in global conflict.
John – You were born about halfway into this cycle. BTW, GenXers
would be about 40-50 years old in 2036. How they doin’? Were they
pretty resourceful scrappers?(Fighters/Survivors)
Bottom line was – prepare for wars around 2008-2012.
Also see the back page of the New Yorker Dec. 25, 2000 -Jan. 1
2001. I’ve seen a few references recently to this growing cultural
tension, one that supercedes the obvious class, racial and economic
divides. Its different and more aggressive cultural mitosis than I had
Posted by John Titor on 02-21-2001 08:48 PM
((In this experiment the traveller only goes 30 seconds into the
past to appear in his lab. It seems that 30 seconds before his
experiment was to begin he saw himself appear in the lab. There would
now be two travelers and two time machines. It doesn’t appear that it
ends that simply as the “second” time traveler says that he saw a
duplicate self appear in the lab thirty seconds before he started the
trip. It would appear that its a time loop and an infinite number of
duplicates see a duplicate self appear in the lab thirty seconds prior
to the start of the trip. ))
Yes, that’s possible.
((Your time machine weighs 500 lbs and an average man weighs about
180 lbs. So lets say that that the mass is about 700 lbs per traveler.
What is the mass of the duplicates and where did the mass come from?))
The other mass comes from other worldlines. I like to think of it
as standing in a room with mirrors on the walls and the apparent “me”
in the room next to mine steps into the room from his.
((What is the result of the duplicates arriving ~simultaneously at the ~same place and time?))
Psychological confusion and a few fist fights.
((How long will it take for the loop to decay? Will it decay? Is it a loop?))
The chances of hitting the precise worldline where all the other
duplicates are arriving is almost zero. It’s possible but increasingly
less probable with each arriving duplicate. The divergence decays and
the worldline is “less available” for new “yous” to arrive on.
((What happens if the experimenter, upon seeing his duplicate, decides not to continue the experiment?))
He can always leave the room on his own worldline or put a desk
full of books in the position where the time machine is arriving every
30 seconds. That will probably trip the VGL system and stop the time
machines from arriving.
((Do you remember any poetry or verse from after 2001 in your past?))
A Soldier’s Winter
The day before it wasn’t snowing.
The trees are strangers, leering, disapproving in the ash of winter
..my world, my life, my wandering path.
I pray God’s eyes may once again gaze upon me and remind me that I am still His child.
I only (think) I remember the first line but the last one I
remember. It has quite a few more lines that I don’t remember. It is
rumored this was written first as a letter by a soldier. After he died
it was added to and edited by others. In my opinion, it has become a
symbol for the collective guilt my parents’ generation feels for what
became of the world.
((Is there an active market on new books in your time, or has that
infranstructure not rebuilt it self? Are most the books available old
or new? ))
Yes but there are no large commercial printing and distribution
companies. Books and other forms of hard media are distributed on the
web and printed or put on other media from local hubs. Napster +
((Out of curiosity, as a rough judge of character, have you read the works of J.R.R. Tolkien? And did you enjoy them.))
My father read the Hobbit to me as a child. I was always afraid of the dark riders but perhaps I admired them too.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 10:44 PM
In a post from you Pamela, one before the one I posted where you had
from the other forum. I suppose I took it as if it was one of TT_0
posts. Sorry .
Here’s a sample: “……In 1983 I enlisted in the united states
Army .it was shortly after my enlistment and before completing basic
training that I was approached by those I now refer to simply as MY
FRIENDS. This group does not contain aliens nor interdimensional
beings, they are human….”
Well I’m humble enough to say when I am wrong, and I apologize for continuing to ask you this question John, and Pamela.
But, much still remains to be seen of your truthfulness. Yet you
have tons of supporters who you managed to woo into believing you
without any physical proof. That in it self, how you would allow that,
Not to mention that you have a secret agenda, and expecting us to think you’re being honest.
Posted by Lola Montez on 02-22-2001 12:13 AM
Thank you for getting to some of my questions. Here are a couple more.
You say you were in the militia fighting the US Army. I would think
that civilians would have a snowballs chance in hell of successfully
fighting the military. What does this look like? Is it a stalemate with
the resistance/militia hiding out until the cities are wiped out
allowing them to surface?
You site the approximate number of cities and military bases intact
before the nuclear attack. Are they ALL hit? Three days walk from
where? The nearest city? Again, though, what population makes a city a
city and not a town?
Does any one or any group stay neutral during all of these years of
fighting? Does anyone just lead a reasonably normal life during the
civil war? You say the civil war lasts from 2004 to 2008 and then the
short big one in 2015. What do the years from 2008 to 2015 look like?
How long does WWIII last.
Where is the safest place in the US to be. Come on be a sport. We
all seem worth saving, don’t we? Besides it would be interesting to see
if any of us took you seriously enough to end up there. I don’t think I
believe in coincidence. Maybe the reason we are all on this board now
is to find this out.
You mention the nature of Canadians but I don’t think you mentioned the impact of all of this on that country. Would you?
Also, regarding your view on the afterlife. I also think that it is a
mystery to unravel. That it is information, awareness, state of mind
and experience that leads to enlightenment and the experience of God.
Deeds and Dogma just don’t do it. As our awareness broadens doing the
right thing is what comes naturally (more often, anyway!)If it is based
on someone else’s idea of right it is a shallow and sporatic endeavor.
Religion must be experiential or it has no staying power (and probably
not enough compassion or tolerance).
Oh yeah, one more thing that is rather haunting is your allusion to
the position of women as being controversial and conservative in 2036.
Yikes! What is that supposed to mean?
Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-22-2001 03:20 AM
Thank you for your honesty.
I have went back and looked up that post you mentioned.
Yes, that post was where we were discussing wether the
waverider had any validity or not. and right after that
was when someone else posted that he had been on art bell for awhile and that Art had proved him to be a fake.
which was posted on the TTI forum on January 1, 2001.
I had first seen the story on a paranormal site.
yep… and you did post right after that I see.
actually that might have been where john discovered Art’s site as well. yep…it looks like john registered in January.
Its ok to question, we are all just trying to find out the truth about things.
But we have to get the facts straight.
p.s. I am not mad at you.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-22-2001 06:52 AM
Ernie – The only comment I have heard so far was – “Interesting… I
need to look at the original though, to make any sort of determination.
Where did you get this?”
Hahaha. I told them I have “my sources”. They are content with that.
To Javier – You made mention of something about folks taking
someone into their lives, etc etc. While I understand that point of
view – the “trust no one, be paranoid” very well – since I am like that
myself, I have to say that you and a few others that have made comments
here detract from the discussion in one aspect. Let me explain before
you misunderstand me.
In our society today, we have nothing but untrusting, cynical
people out there. For good reason, most of them have had bad
experiences. The internet is not to be trusted in general and people in
general shouldn’t be trusted.
Now, what I am trying to say here (not very well) is this is akin
to some of the antigun people I meet. When I talk about the Second
Amendment to them, they get all upset and scream and yell how no one
should have guns and if there were no guns there would be no crime or
war. I calmly point out that there were wars before there were guns,
and they go on about how that was a “less civilized society”…
Then there are the “skeptics” about UFOs, and any kind of odd, out
of the ordinary occurrences (for instance, Big Foot, alien abductions,
SETI etc). Let’s say for instance someone is a “skeptic” – that doesn’t
mean they should close their minds completely to anything new, in fact,
doesn’t mean they should close their eyes to the apparently impossible.
In “my world” everything is possible. Just because we have a set of
mathematics to describe something here and now, does NOT mean there
isn’t a loop hole in those calculations.
What I’m getting at is very simple. I don’t believe John is a time
traveler right now. I have enough of a physics background to understand
his information though and (assuming he IS real) eventually he will hit
on something that I personally can use to verify for myself the truth.
I think Ernie said nothing would be conclusive proof. Then again, I
don’t require conclusive proof to keep “alive the idea that time travel
What I’m trying to say is that you’ve set yourself up to be John’s
nemises for some reason. If it is to protect the rest of us, that isn’t
necessary. We’re all adult, thinking (free thinking) individuals who
have the right to whatever beliefs we wish in this day and age,
regardless of our gender, religious believes, race or even in my humble
In other words… a skeptic is a good thing to be. Each of us
should have our own, interal skeptism to use to mediate our belief
systems. But, when someone comes in loud and strong trying to force
everyone to his or her point of view, there is a serious problem.
Now, I’m not asking that you (or anyone) NOT pursue their ideas, and
idealism, nor am I even asking you not to try to convince people. I’m
simply pointing out that we all have a right to our beliefs – without
ridicule from anyone else.
Don’t get me wrong here, I am not taking any one’s “side” as I don’t believe there are sides to take here.
Someone else (I forget who it was) mentioned something about
nuclear weapons being tossed from corner to corner of the earth and the
impossibility of that. Think again.
There is more of a nuclear threat, right now, today in 2001 than
there was in 1983. During the Cold War, we never would have launched a
nuke, nor would have the Soviet Union at each other.
However, there is a greater threat today because many smaller, and
somewhat unstable countries are getting nuclear capability – and have
access to other countries who would sell nukes without any qualms.
Yes, biological threats are bigger, but do not rule out nukes, ever.
Even the CIA special report that came our recently mentioned what I just said.
I guess the only thing we need in this discussion are some more
pictures of manuals, and/or a video tape of John’s “depature” (if that
is what you would call it??) from our time line.
Proof, sometimes like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.